tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27697009.post5276858958837143615..comments2024-02-29T03:21:35.007-08:00Comments on The Great Depression of 2006 : Let's Tax the PoorJim in San Marcoshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09435296419912935381noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27697009.post-24981282802615056202009-08-26T21:43:49.199-07:002009-08-26T21:43:49.199-07:00Um, it is called a lottery, and we tax the poor to...Um, it is called a lottery, and we tax the poor to the point that they jam up lines in gas stations while they carefully pick the numbers that will make them rich.<br /><br />How many rich people you see buying powerball?Mike The Bunnyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14068805932805309520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27697009.post-79611044435070275592009-07-06T16:56:22.418-07:002009-07-06T16:56:22.418-07:00Rich people, for the most part, did not start off ...Rich people, for the most part, did not start off poor. They got a "free ride" from their parents. Their parents paid for their education, cars, clothes, food and all they had to do was study and through their connections, they made it. Poor folks have to struggle. The poor do not get a free ride and any welfare they get barely keeps them afloat. If you take that away from them, they will be even worse off.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27697009.post-20670962120558140112009-06-28T18:09:05.186-07:002009-06-28T18:09:05.186-07:00Hi Connecticut Renter
My nephew is in Iraq and hi...Hi Connecticut Renter<br /><br />My nephew is in Iraq and his wife decided to visit some friends last month. When she returned home, a shotgun ,several high powered rifles, two hand guns and a laptop had been stolen. He's a little pissed.<br /><br />When some home owner shoots a burglar, it makes the headlines nation wide. Drive by shootings don't even make the front page of the B section.<br /><br />Using a hand gun is a little like killing a fly with a fly swatter; it's not as easy as it looks. It gets even more dangerous if the fly can shoot back.<br /><br />How many houses do you have to rob before you get a hand gun and become a real threat?<br /><br />I don't see a clear cut solution to gun ownership.Jim in San Marcoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09435296419912935381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27697009.post-52050421074626338342009-06-26T11:16:46.139-07:002009-06-26T11:16:46.139-07:00ca,
Please be responsible for your family's s...ca,<br /><br />Please be responsible for your family's safety. No one else is going to protect you and yours. Police are rarely present at the scene of a crime while it is happening. Even if they are, it is a rare noble officer who will put his life on the line for your wife or daughter's dignity.<br /><br />A dog is a great first step. Train your dog well. Then realize how little defense a dog is against a determined human. A dog is your best alarm system, not your best weapon. <br /><br />Buy a gun and train how to use it. I recommend Front Sight in Nevada. Their program teaches you how to shoot, when to shoot, and what to expect if you ever do have to shoot someone. Sign up for the Front Sight e-mails today. Yes, their website and marketing is cheesy. Their training is bar none.<br /><br />In response to those posters who think sleepwalking and guns are incompatible, don't let that be an excuse to leave your family to the mercy (or lack thereof) of criminals. Get professional help on whatever obstacles you need to overcome to arm yourself against the rough times ahead.<br /><br />- Connecticut RenterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27697009.post-86638063664965975342009-06-25T11:06:55.940-07:002009-06-25T11:06:55.940-07:00This is why a flat consumption tax instead of an i...This is why a flat consumption tax instead of an income tax is the way to go; no one can escape the tax. If you consume more, you pay more. Its a disincentive to spend, so naturally there would be more savers in this country. There could even be a tax exemption on food for those whose income/wealth falls below a certain level. That way the poor can still eat, but still have to contribute to the tax base via their other purchases.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27697009.post-86992451907739385902009-06-23T04:11:25.325-07:002009-06-23T04:11:25.325-07:00Hi Jim,
Thanks for allowing me the forum. By the w...Hi Jim,<br />Thanks for allowing me the forum. By the way, I am an electrical engineer not an economist, but I believe anyone can understand this.<br /><br />I would just add that taxation be it on employee income or business income, property, or land is always a burden on production, which finally falls on consumers. When we personally pay mandatory municipal taxes, normally we do so from our earned income, i.e. from money provided by consumers of our work. It is therefore a personal cost on our production.<br /><br />Then when we think we have paid our taxes and begin to spend our disposable income we encounter sales taxes such as VAT, etc. These are explicit in a way that deludes us into thinking that we are paying no more than this in a purchase. But if we add up what we think of as our total tax bill we will not reach the true figure at all.<br /><br />The truth is this: if total taxation is 40% of GDP (UK), then on average 40% of what we spend with our net disposable income is actually tax. Say we buy something with a basic cost of £60, effectively another £40 is added as tax. This corresponds to a sales tax mark up of 66%. How many people appreciate that? Tax will soon be 50% of GDP or more in the UK corresponding to a sales tax mark up of 100%!<br /><br />If voters realised this then they might say some tax might be better spent by ourselves. Unfortunately, as if this wasn't enough, tax is looking more and more like interest on debt that has been incurred by irresponsible government.Edward Forsterhttp://ecforster.netfirms.com/Tax/Doc1.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27697009.post-85234635304047470382009-06-22T23:41:09.181-07:002009-06-22T23:41:09.181-07:00I think what Edward says is very true. I would als...I think what Edward says is very true. I would also agree with capital gains taxes and luxury taxes. <br /><br />I'm actually from New Zealand and it seems that we have a very similar situation. While our actual unemployment figures are quite reasonable we have a hidden unemploye population. Much harder to deal with and they are called the "disability beneficiaries". The problem is, most of these people aren't actually disabled but have managed to get a doctor's certificate saying that they have terribly back problems or some other bull****.<br /><br />The biggest problem with these families is that they see the system as a lifestyle. They train their children to think the same and encourage them to have as many children as possible and hey why not start young (the more children an individual has, the higher are the benefits they are eligible for)?<br /><br />So we have an exponentially expanding population of people whose only purpose in life is to create more deadshit children and use the system to their benefit. <br /><br />The situation I am in is a good example of the inequailities. <br /><br />I am a well brought up person from a middle class background and married to an Austrian. I've just started studying as we moved back here a few months ago. My husband has been looking for work since we arrived to no avail and we have used up our savings. If I wasn't studying I would be eligible for the benefit, but since I am a student with parents earning more than the given threshold (I think it's around (50,000 USD), even though I am married I am completely on my own as far as financing things is concerned. My husband is ineligible as he is on a temporary work-permit. HOWEVER if we had a child I would be considered independently of my parents and would receive support. Naturally I am doing my best to get a job as is my hubby but we would love a little support, considering I was a taxpayer for several years and I am actually educating myself in order to become a contributing member of society. The incentives offered by the government seem to constantly encourage two things: don't study, have kids. <br /><br />Sometimes feel like an idiot for bothering to do things properly. I could just never work, live reasonably comfortbly, have kids that are also supported and let others do the work. Pity I was brought up to do my bit. <br /><br />Poor Sap.Hausfrauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13668836777703592677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27697009.post-87602152508731772782009-06-22T19:53:30.109-07:002009-06-22T19:53:30.109-07:00Hi Edward
To your VAT (Value added Tax) I would a...Hi Edward<br /><br />To your VAT (Value added Tax) I would also like to see a land tax and a luxury tax.<br /><br />The only problem I see, is in the transition, from what we have now, to what you proposed. The UK went for the transition and decided to keep both plans if I'm not mistaken.<br /><br />The taxpayer seeks fairer taxation. The government seeks more tax dollars. They won't meet in the middle on this one, you can bet your tax dollars on that!<br /><br />Thank you for your comments.Jim in San Marcoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09435296419912935381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27697009.post-59451321260065402962009-06-22T19:39:50.402-07:002009-06-22T19:39:50.402-07:00Hi Frakrak
I guess it's a little like feeding...Hi Frakrak<br /><br />I guess it's a little like feeding the wildlife. Once you change the way they procure food, they become dependent upon you, which when winter comes, is a bad thing.<br /><br />Our situation could cure itself. Can winter be far away?Jim in San Marcoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09435296419912935381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27697009.post-7394638987266577992009-06-22T13:24:18.679-07:002009-06-22T13:24:18.679-07:00Who bears the burden of progressive taxation? For ...Who bears the burden of progressive taxation? For example, if we consider the employees at a supermarket, they and their payroll taxes are a cost to every consumer buying at the supermarket. That must be the case since the company's only source of revenue is its customers. Thus, the total company payroll tax bill is a percentage cost of every sales price.<br /><br />Therefore, who is considered to pay income taxes? It surely cannot be the individual employees through their payroll deductions as we can see that they are essentially collecting tax from consumers and passing it on directly to government, without it even touching their own pockets. The great delusion is that by this taxation strategy employees think that they are paying tax, but those employment taxes are translated into equivalent sales taxes and so are all taxes involved in the chain of production down to the consumer.<br /><br />No, the real taxpayers are ultimately and entirely the retail consumers.<br />And, the real equivalent sales tax is the same for everyone rich or poor. That is the extent of progressive taxation on incomes. Some might see it more as political.<br /><br />It is almost self evident that any scheme of taxation on producers can be financed only by their paying retail customers at the end of the supply chain and it will always be in proportion to individual customer spending. Therefore, we are already subject to taxation of our consumption, but it is imposed by the back door in a hugely complex, expensive, intrusive and convoluted manner that misleads voters as to the true cost of government that is contained in every pound we spend. I would suggest that the obvious next step is to convert to an explicit consumption tax regime with a single flat percentage rate, abolishing all other taxes. Current net personal income would be declared true income in employment contracts henceforth. Then, the massive income tax industry could be put to more constructive use and entrepreneurs would be released to flourish.Edward Forsterhttp://ecforster.netfirms.com/Tax/Doc1.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27697009.post-31933625576978788342009-06-22T08:22:10.850-07:002009-06-22T08:22:10.850-07:00Hi JMS
Once you get use to a dog, they become gre...Hi JMS<br /><br />Once you get use to a dog, they become great company.<br /><br />I have a 20 pound Sheltie, a lot smaller than your dog. He doesn't eat much and easier on clean up.<br /><br />With dog around, I don't have to get up and check out those things that go bump in the night. Plus if you ring the door bell or knock, you'd think we haven't fed him in quite a while. Great little burglar alarm.Jim in San Marcoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09435296419912935381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27697009.post-2070879123991994422009-06-22T07:51:41.634-07:002009-06-22T07:51:41.634-07:00Jim I to agree/appreciate your comments on guns! I...Jim I to agree/appreciate your comments on guns! I also agree totally with your take on welfare and the working poor. The same happens in this country, EVERYONE should pay income tax at both ends of the economic food chain. <br /><br />I was married in 1991, and being the sole earner for my family I was entitled to a small tax break; two weeks later this was abolished and turned into a “family payment,” effectively making me a working welfare recipient! This payment was deposited into my bank account every two weeks, opening the flood gates to an unbelievable amount of welfare B.S. in this country from this point on. <br /><br />Governments have created a disempowering “cap in hand dependency” rather than an empowering culture of contributors to society! Governments should act with compassion towards poverty but not create dependency with the able bodied!<br />cheersfrakrakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10110027067402980842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27697009.post-85599710154154747452009-06-22T04:22:45.436-07:002009-06-22T04:22:45.436-07:00Jim, I completely agree with you about the gun thi...Jim, I completely agree with you about the gun thing. At first I was seriously pondering the idea of buying a gun. I even got the buy in from my wife. I am pro gun, but I think its near impossible to guarantee that it will only be used in the correct situation. I don't want to have an accident on my concience. <br /><br />So I had a dilemma. How to protect my wife and my house while I am not there. So we bought a bullmastiff, and he is the cutest! Right now he is 6 months old and a little over 80lbs. We think he will max at about 140-150lbs. During the night he does walks around the house making sure everything is in its correct place. He doesn't bark often but when he does you know its for a reason and he probably makes better decisions than I do in the heat of the moment.JMShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07209116028204451060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27697009.post-31136974482414136602009-06-21T13:22:08.631-07:002009-06-21T13:22:08.631-07:00Hi Ca
Guns aren't the problem. If you have ki...Hi Ca<br /><br />Guns aren't the problem. If you have kids, drink alcohol or have a bad temper, you are asking for trouble.<br /><br />I sleep walk and it sounds innocent enough. My cousin almost ran me through with a fencing foil while I was strolling around the house in the dark. A few years back, I was staying at a friends house the night and nearly got shot while wandering through his home.<br /><br />I'd recommend getting a dog instead.Jim in San Marcoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09435296419912935381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27697009.post-31077378949808235242009-06-21T09:03:44.462-07:002009-06-21T09:03:44.462-07:00Hi Sack
I don't think that the "poor&quo...Hi Sack<br /><br />I don't think that the "poor" get taxed hard here.<br /><br />When Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans, it displaced a lot of people. The governments response was severely inadequate. If you read between the lines, it looks like a large percentage of the people were working for cash and paying no taxes. It was an invisible economy that enjoyed welfare, unemployment, free education and health care. Mix in prostitution and drugs.<br /><br />The hurricane destroyed a life style.<br /><br />I do think that these "want to be rich" people do spend more trying to get rich (race track and lottery) and a lot on alcohol tobacco and drugs.<br /><br />The concept of being poor means something different to each person. A bottle of beer and your arm around a young tart at the race track with you welfare check in your back pocket might just be the good life. You can always claim you got robbed when you go home to face the wife and kids.<br /><br />Here is a better <a href="http://www.migrationwatchuk.com/briefingPaper/document/154" rel="nofollow">Link</a> to your web doc. After reading that, I wonder how many people on your side of the pond are working under the table for cash. When you add government benefits with the hidden income, you're no longer poor. You're gaming the system.Jim in San Marcoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09435296419912935381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27697009.post-3157059499629396852009-06-21T03:54:40.011-07:002009-06-21T03:54:40.011-07:00Jim -
Regarding the gun issue....
After reading ...Jim -<br /><br />Regarding the gun issue....<br /><br />After reading about the increase in crime, I suggested to my husband that we should get a gun. He thought this was a little extreme. So I suggested that he speak with the state police who have an office on the campus where he works.<br /><br />When he told them we were thinking of buying a gun, they responded "we think that is a good idea." We were shocked.canoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27697009.post-62545588426094802862009-06-21T02:08:53.726-07:002009-06-21T02:08:53.726-07:00P.S. Taxing the poor directly wouldn't help mu...P.S. Taxing the poor directly wouldn't help much anyway. Consider the implications of this study on the estimated costs of a family on minimum wage:<br /><br />http://www.migrationwatchuk.com/briefingPaper/document/154Sackersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09410040031410954403noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27697009.post-44085625869387659542009-06-21T01:50:58.403-07:002009-06-21T01:50:58.403-07:00Jim - I made a second point, but I don't know ...Jim - I made a second point, but I don't know if it holds true in the US?: poor people pay a significant proportion of their income in indirect taxation.<br /><br />But there is also the question of economic migration. We in the UK have been told for years how beneficial it is to have people come in from abroad to work here - yet if you look at per capita expenditure merely on health and education and compare it with the expected direct and indirect tax take on a wage earner, you'd have to earn a significant amount to be a net contributor to the system. This is where it's going to get nasty in the downturn. The laxness of our border controls in the last decade - I can't speak for the US - is leading to proto-racist stirrings in a normally very easy-going country.Sackersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09410040031410954403noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27697009.post-65965669206124356712009-06-20T21:50:05.743-07:002009-06-20T21:50:05.743-07:00Hi Frak
I don't have any solutions either. Ev...Hi Frak<br /><br />I don't have any solutions either. Everyone is projecting that we have hit bottom. That seems pretty absurd. I know people who have lost their jobs and are looking for work. Plus, if you have a job, your still scared that you could lose yours.<br /><br />Our unemployment is turning into a potential powder keg. We have 20% to 40% black unemployment, (depending on where you troll for data). The silence on this highly visible aspect of who is unemployed is deafening. It doesn't look like an Obama bumper sticker will put food on the table to feed the wife and kids.<br /><br />Are we in the eye of the hurricane? Time will tell. The trouble is, we might not have to wait very long for the answer.Jim in San Marcoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09435296419912935381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27697009.post-48625090087477600082009-06-20T20:28:38.786-07:002009-06-20T20:28:38.786-07:00Hi Angry Tax Payer
I don't see government try...Hi Angry Tax Payer<br /><br />I don't see government trying to much of anything. It won't get you re elected.<br /><br />Frakrak in the post below yours, alludes to the fact that "American society will not handle 25% unemployment the same way it did seventy years ago!" That could be part of the solution. The government will be broke. No free health care or welfare, it will be sink or swim time.<br /><br />The net result will be like poking a stick into a wasp's nest. I'm just glad there is an ocean separating us from the 4 billion people about to become unemployed.Jim in San Marcoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09435296419912935381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27697009.post-17266404536358011782009-06-20T06:20:51.219-07:002009-06-20T06:20:51.219-07:00My guess is American society will not handle 25% u...My guess is American society will not handle 25% unemployment the same way it did seventy years ago! <br /><br />Obama would need more balls (in the air) than a Cirque du Soleil Juggler to appease the public on the topic of taxation reform! <br /><br />If he is moving towards reform on tax, health, welfare, financial regulation, why can’t the guy get some alternatives together (via a summit) and present it to the public in the form of a referendum! Then he would have a true mandate to reform, the great unwashed would not feel disenfranchised, and after due process you should get change in about 30 years … <br /><br />Truly wish I had a better suggestion for you all..frakrakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10110027067402980842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27697009.post-28185443270395358032009-06-20T02:15:53.683-07:002009-06-20T02:15:53.683-07:00Jim,
Death and taxes. Realized by everyone somed...Jim,<br /><br />Death and taxes. Realized by everyone someday. Death is a sure thing, however taxes are relative. Not only do the "poor" not pay income taxes, but in many cases get up to $3,500 check from tax payers at the end of the year. Earned Income Credit anyone?<br /><br />At my previous company, we hired a "career" temp employee towards the end of the year. She terminated the six week contract early. When asked why she was leaving, she replied "I'm at the max I can earn for the year," and further explained she was at the income limit to draw EIC funds from the IRS (actually, me and you). An isolated case... I'm not so sure.<br /><br />If we could only get folks exited about real Tax Reform instead of more tax and spend government programs perhaps we could get some bi-partisan group hugging going on in the country.<br /><br />I have no problem paying taxes, as long as its fair and that we ALL do. Get rid of corporate and personal tax returns, deductions, and exemptions. In a perfect world the IRS would be abolished, taxes would be flat, collected on consumption of everything except food, and not from our income. <br /><br />Both the rich and poor consume and would pay a fair-share based on their capacity. The rich, regardless of where their money came from do spend more than the poor. As folks climb the social and economic ladder more taxes would be contributed.<br /><br />What to do with all the collected taxes? <br /><br />- 1) Strongest national defense in the world.<br /> <br />- 2) Free top notch, high quality, public education from Pre-K through 2nd year of college.<br /> <br />- 3) Free high speed mass transit system to ultimately replace the automobile.<br /><br />ATPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27697009.post-35788690640720187232009-06-19T21:50:06.050-07:002009-06-19T21:50:06.050-07:00Hi Frakrak
I disagree in one respect, I think tha...Hi Frakrak<br /><br />I disagree in one respect, I think that a lot of the rich people today started cleaning toilets in the beginning. You have to be prepared to do anything and everything.<br /><br />I do agree that the government has a very big responsibility to help keep people supported while they look for a new job.<br /><br />I think that your idea of community support for the infrastructure is a good one. Maybe it will catch on (there is no money to pay for it).<br /><br />Take care.Jim in San Marcoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09435296419912935381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27697009.post-16707811078646757552009-06-19T21:25:04.634-07:002009-06-19T21:25:04.634-07:00Hi Dearieme
(I didn't miss-spell your handle ...Hi Dearieme<br /><br />(I didn't miss-spell your handle this time)<br /><br />I seriously suggest that you request a refund from what ever cooking school you are attending and consult with a lawyer;>)Jim in San Marcoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09435296419912935381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27697009.post-89444233735743955062009-06-19T21:11:26.456-07:002009-06-19T21:11:26.456-07:00Hi Gone too Soon
I agree. I have mentioned it bef...Hi Gone too Soon<br /><br />I agree. I have mentioned it before. Have enough food on hand to feed your neighbors. I do believe that we will need to help each other to survive this mess. It will be a group effort. Your neighbor will be your wingman.<br /><br />I do think that a handgun might not be the security element you think it is. Shooting someone (if conditions deteriorate) might get you and your house burned to the ground.Jim in San Marcoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09435296419912935381noreply@blogger.com